Linux Mint 4.0 Daryna KDE Community Edition

Submitted by seopher on Tue, 03/11/2008 - 00:40.

The last time I investigated Linux Mint I decided that I "didn't get it" and I approached the latest release with that in mind. But it's actually come a long way and while it's not perfect, I now understand.

This release - Linux Mint 4.0 Daryna KDE Community Edition - is quite an ambitious stab at something new and that's not what I was expecting at all.

You see I've always looked upon Mint with confusion; as a derivative of Ubuntu I never quite understood why it existed. Sure there was a time where preloading codecs and software was a desirable thing but now days everyone has tackled that problem in different ways - thus making "out of the box" releases like Mint a little redundant. There are some really interesting things about Mint that deviate from that stereotype massively.

Installation
This release is big. It comes at just under 1gb which means you're in DVD territory and while that's no bad thing these days (as DVD's are no longer expensive) it seems an interesting choice to make. Clearly the judgment was made that 'out of the box' functionality is important and therefore the DVD is to be loaded with goodies, codecs and puppies for the user to toy with.

Installation was undeniably easy; borrowing most of the process from Ubuntu. The LiveCD detected my monitor size to be absolutely mammoth and adjusted the resolution as such. Unfortunately the 24" screen it thought I had was actually just a 17" but changing this was nice and simple (more on that in configuration). No qualms with installation, you've seen it all before. It works, let's move on.

Aesthetics
It's an okay looking release but there are a few rough edges that leap out at me. The icon design doesn't have the same flair that PCLinuxOS Gnome 2.21.2 showed last week and in fact reminds me of PCLinuxOS 0.93 "Big Daddy". Big Daddy was handsome in it's day (I toyed with it in November 2006) but times have moved on and Mint looks rather "ordinary". Although I'm sure some sexier wallpapers would do the trick.

As you can see from the above screenshot, it's not a bad looker when you're using it, it's just not a stunner. Subtle gradients on the highlighted rows would really help. I don't know, it's just the icons and minimal padding around items seem really amateur-ish. Mint looks to be yet another release borrowing the familiar "Vista" style windows too; not that I mind, it's functional and attractive it just feels like the designers lacked inspiration somewhere...

I feel like I've been a bit harsh, it's not *bad* looking it's just nothing to write home about. I can't help but feel that a release that's clearly aiming for mainstream acceptance should be a little more polished in that respect, but that's just my opinion.

Now that I've got my aesthetic gripes out of the way, let's move onto areas where Mint performs really well

Networking
As you would expect with an Ubuntu derivative (it is using the Gutsy Kernel after all) the networking in Mint is solid; my connection was picked up straight away (again, I can't comment on wireless support as this machine uses a wired connection). Once connected to the Internet I was able to access my Samba shares without any problems at all. So I pulled down a few files to test media support.

Media
I don't like Kaffeine (the application, obviously). I never have and I doubt I ever will. I know some people like it but I don't. This comes installed as standard and despite my distaste for the application it played my chosen files fine (episodes of The Simpsons). Clearly Mint comes with codecs preloaded and that's good.

However it wasn't until I opted to install VLC that I found the most interesting aspect of Mint...

Installation, Apt and Usability
Every release I've used in recent history makes use of Synaptic Package Manager; most of them using the very same GUI. I was expecting to have to source VLC from the online category and allow Synaptic to apt-get it for me (this is fine, I consider it "the norm" and fairly usable). The Mint guys have other ideas and have chosen to tackle software installation in a new and interesting way...

In the menu there is an item called "Software Portal" which prompts you to either search for a specific piece of software or browse the catalogue. I expected this to be a similar interface to the "Add/Remove Programs" bit found in Ubuntu. I was wrong. Once I'd submitted my search for "VLC" Firefox opened and I was taken to the Mint website itself where the catalogue was managed. I was presented with the following screen:

Opting to "Install Now" opened a download in Firefox; I downloaded this file and opened it with "mintInstall" (as selected by default). This then hooked up this downloaded file to Synaptic and I was asked whether I wanted to install VLC:

Opting for "Yes" the mintInstall application did an apt-get on VLC and installed it (in a very Synaptic-like manner). Once VLC was installed it was added to the menu as usual and we were done.

While I'm still mildly amazed by Synaptic after all this time I was more interested in the new approach Mint had taken. Instead of prompting me to open Synaptic I was given a local interface to enter my search terms which then queried the online catalogue of software... Instead of interacting with Synaptic directly I was using Firefox to navigate the catalogue and select the application to install.

You know what this felt like? This felt like using Windows.

Using a web-browser to find the software you like? Download it then install it? Hang on doesn't this all sound awfully familiar? Indeed - this is like an abridged Linux/Windows installation procedure. You're still using Synaptic (and indeed apt) but the inclusion of a web-browser into this process makes it more familiar to Windows users.

And that's the clever bit. Usability is key, right? "Software Portal" is a more friendly name than "Synaptic Package Manager". It's less confrontational to new users too (you're not presented with a massive list of modules and packages to cherry-pick through). Sure you can still get them, but the Mint guys have obviously thought about the user experience and that's a good thing. It's not fully polished yet (aesthetically if anything) but it's great to see releases thinking outside the box occasionally.

Configuration
Mint also has a pretty powerful configuration utility with natural language and an easy UI:

However if you know what you're doing you can get a decent level of information (and configuration) out of the utility. It's good. I don't find it as good as the one you find in Mandriva and PCLOS but it's a nice step forward.

Final thoughts
I can't see myself using Mint on a regular basis; for whatever reason it feels a little bloated and underwhelming out of the box. It was only when I dugg a little deeper did I find the installation workflow that captured my imagination. When I said before that I finally "get" Mint I meant it. This release isn't aimed at me. This release is aimed at users who want/need direct out of the box functionality without the desire to trawl through lists of modules to get what they want. This box is aimed at people who just want to be given a DVD and have an operating system - for them it's pretty good. It's just *not* pretty enough in my opinion (but that's quite a shallow standpoint).

I really like the thought that's gone into the installation of software (because it's different) and for all the obvious reasons it's a good release; it just doesn't have that "wow" factor that I feel others seem to have. It's absolutely worth a look if you're the sort of person who finds Ubuntu too lightweight. For me, well I guess I'll stick with PCLOS for now.

Completely agree with this

Completely agree with this review on all points. Mint is really nothing more than a few add on modules for Ubuntu. I dont think its even proper to call Mint a Distro because it pretty much IS Ubuntu. You can then follow that line by saying, "well, Ubuntu then IS Debian," and that is true to a small degree. Ubuntu grabs snapshots of Debian Unstable every 6 months, but then modifies the code significantly enough to the point that some debian packages wont work on Ubuntu and vica versa. Install is much difference between Debian and Ubuntu. So on and so forth. The same cannot be said of Mint, which again IS Ubuntu with a different name.

Submitted by davemc (not verified) on Tue, 03/11/2008 - 17:53.

Thanks for the comment Dave,

Thanks for the comment Dave, but I'm not sure I fully agree with your comment. There was a time when I felt Mint was nothing more than redundant Ubuntu derivative but this release has shown me a little different.

Out of the box functionality is key and they're pushing for a higher level of usability than Ubuntu seems to be. Sure they've not got it quite right yet but it's good to see releases try and push things in the right direction.

Submitted by seopher on Tue, 03/11/2008 - 19:17.

Well, if you say that Mint

Well, if you say that Mint linux is no more than Ubuntu with some modules, then you are somehow mistaken about it...and If you say this about Mint KDE, then you are COMPLETELY WRONG!

A Linux distro isn't only about an installer, and derivation became really a standard way to have new distros in Linux world.. The modular nature of GNU/Linux systems makes derivation a matter of selecting, adding and removing packages, then add some more of your own tools if there are any..then you got your own distro... I know this isn't always the case as some distros does provide some new ways of doing things(like package management), but this doesn't make the distros which doesn't do so a 'clone' distro.. A good example for this is SuSe which started as slackware derivative but borrowed the package system of Red Hat(RPM)..
Another example is SimpleMEPIS, it's compatible with debian packages(a derivative) but is completely a stand alone distro..

Mint Gnome provides many fine tunes and add-on's on Ubuntu, and although they share many application selection(like firefox and openoffice.org which are standard recommended selections), it does pick its own selections for some categories(like Amarok) ..I think for a desktop PC OS, this should be the case..

While this is the case for the Gnome Mint, for the KDE Edition, this is even more obvious. Just compare this edition to Ubuntu and Kubuntu and judge your self !

Submitted by yehdev_c (not verified) on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 05:20.

Agreed, good comment.

Submitted by seopher on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 07:41.

Hi, Thanks for reviewing

Hi,

Thanks for reviewing this edition. I just wanted to make a little comment about mintInstall (Software Portal). The reason we're using an online portal instead of directly using synaptic is simply because synaptic shows packages from a particular set of repositories. The portal doesn't show packages, it shows applications, whether these are in your repositories or not (mintInstall uses the sources.list provided by the application file, not the sources.list you've set on your system). So Synaptic is great to deal with packages, while the portal is great to deal with applications.

In most cases the application corresponds to a package of the same name present in the default repositories, but the protocol used by the portal can define applications that are related to packages from other repositories, or even non-deb packages. The .mint file you download is basically a set of instructions for your system to install that program... it can tell it to add a repository, add a key, install packages, untar an archive, run a few commands...etc... a .mint file is basically a Linux installer and it doesn't necessarily contain the program itself, so in this respect it's very different than a deb package.

I'm glad Windows users find it great for whatever reason... (I don't remember seeing a package manager or even an application manager in Windows). But we're not doing things for people to run Linux the way they run Windows, we're doing things because we think they're good :)

Thanks for the review,
All the best.

Clem.

Submitted by Clem (not verified) on Tue, 03/11/2008 - 18:13.

Hi Clem, Yeah I really liked

Hi Clem,

Yeah I really liked the abstraction between Synaptic and the Software Portal. Don't get me wrong, I love Synaptic and don't find it counter-intuitive, but I think taking it one step further by using Software Portal is a great idea.

So yeah, Synaptic is great but I'm not sure it's too obvious for the average user - and that's where I think Mint really came into it's own by showing forward thinking.

Thanks for the feedback.

Submitted by seopher on Tue, 03/11/2008 - 19:15.

Linux is GOOd! WinDowS bAD!

Linux is GOOd! WinDowS bAD! Mac who gives a Shit!

Submitted by Mr Dribbly (not verified) on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 06:25.

Although I am really not

Although I am really not impressed by the artwork in this addition I am however, very very impressed by the Linux Mint distributions. The GNOME, and KDE editions are among the finest I have seen.

Remember, Jamie Boo who maintains Linux Mint KDE is not employed by Linux Mint, he just contributes in his spare time, and can manage to produce such a great distribution like this.

As said earlier, I do however agree with the writer when they said the artwork was "meh". Other then that, Linux Mint KDE is an amazing distribution,

-LostOverThere
http://cheesemedia.net

Submitted by LostOverThere (not verified) on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 08:23.

Yeah I agree, it's a good

Yeah I agree, it's a good release but the artwork is a little uninspired. Personally PCLOS is the better release but I'm keeping an eye on Mint from now on.

Submitted by seopher on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 10:38.

I think where Mint has

I think where Mint has captured my respect is in the way these guys think. Let's be honest. There are many of us that believe Mint is, in many aspects, what (k)ubuntu should have been...or at least in the direction it should have been going.

Having been a frontman for PCLinuxOS for two years, I can see where Mint is beginning to outpace them. Of course everything is colored by subjectivity so apply the applicable grains of salt to taste. Mint rests on the spectacular application choices of the Ubuntu repositories and as I grow as a Linux User, I find a need for those apps not yet available in PCLOS

I find that PCLinuxOS does not yet have the packages I find necessary for MY day to day use. Now, that changes by the day as more people come aboard that are willing to package the rpms for it, but as of now, the Debian/Ubuntu repositories are a sea of exploration as opposed to a roadside fishing hole that houses the school of PCLinuxOS apps. "School" being about 8000 apps at my last count...that's a pretty large school.

They do, in their defense however, have one of the most beautiful and complete eye candy repositories available. This is where Mint could really shine...inclusion of the metal4kde and activeheart styles would go a long way in improving Mint...that and building a control center like Mandriva/PCLinuxOS boast. You cannot argue with the pclos icon choices either...there are some in there that I haven't found elsewhere.

I agree that Mint isn't just another ripoff of Ubuntu. The talent behind this Distro (have you explored their work in fedora and debian mint?) is not only promising, it is insirational and I have no problems in supporting this distro and those behind it.

Now...is it make - make/install on this or do I have to do ./configure to get Activeheart to work...?

Submitted by helios (not verified) on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 11:39.

As a long time Slackware

As a long time Slackware user, I really like to get under the hood and tinker. I prefer to install from source over packages. I've been using Slackware for over 8 years.

All that time, I have kept abreast of other distros. I usually have a VM or real machine running something else. I've tried Fedora, Suse, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Gentoo, etc. When I tried Linux Mint, I was hooked. Friends kept pushing Ubuntu, but it just didn't seem to work well for me.

When I finally decided to rebuild my box, I debated between Slackware 12 and Linux Mint. I decided to try Mint for a few months as my primary OS. That was 6 months ago. Other than an occasional twinge of guilt for leaving my beloved Slack, I've never been anything but thrilled with Linux Mint.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 14:39.

Good comment, I too found a

Good comment, I too found a similar thing with PCLinuxOS. Everyone in the world seemed to push me towards Ubuntu (or Fedora - you know who you are) and it just comes down to what *feels* best.

Another positive story for Mint then :)

Submitted by seopher on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 15:17.

I've got Mint Cassandra

I've got Mint Cassandra (Gnome) on my AMD64 box.
Much as I hate the menu panels thing, and it should be 64 bit, not 32, and I use Mandriva KDE on my other box, the built in Flash & Java swing it.

Submitted by P.Woods (not verified) on Wed, 03/12/2008 - 21:21.

I totally agree with Helios.

I totally agree with Helios. I am originally a Slack user, but I used PCLOS for about a year. The frustration of not having up-to-date versions of apps I needed pushed me to the breaking point, and I switched to Mint 6 months ago. Mint Gnome is damn near perfect in my opinion. And it is NOT just Ubuntu with a coat of paint. Mint tools, codecs, customizes menu, app selection, browser plugins, Ubuntu bug-fixes, etc, etc. However, the 100% binary compatibility with Ubuntu is where Mint has an advantage over PCLOS which struggles with it's application pool. All of Ubuntu's strengths and none of it's weaknesses. It's the DayWalker of distros!

Mint KDE is progressing to that same point. It's already surpassed Kubuntu. But it's not quite fair to compare it to PCLOS, as Mint KDE is a Community Edition that's only now picking up some real momentum. It is only a matter of time before it refines some of the UI and look/feel pieces. When it does, I truly believe it will be the KDE distro of the year, surpassing PCLOS, Mandriva and Suse. I'm a believer!

--Akshun J

Submitted by akshunj (not verified) on Thu, 03/13/2008 - 04:21.

Monkeys and humans share 90%

Monkeys and humans share 90% of their genetic code, but what a difference that 10% makes! Some distros try to improve that 10% of their parent distro. Call them Fedora, Mint or PCLinuxOS, the small details make a HUGE difference.

Submitted by Whitespiral (not verified) on Thu, 03/13/2008 - 13:26.

I think your emphasis on

I think your emphasis on appearance is pretty shallow. I care more about functionality. I disagree that Mint is just Ubuntu+. I have Ubuntu installed and found it a huge pain to get all of the stuff installed to make it really usable. Many of the apps are really scripts that run the real programs and if you don't know what to install then things just don't work. I have been using PCLOS myself, but plan on installing Mint when I get time. It sounds great to me.

Submitted by A Linux User (not verified) on Fri, 03/14/2008 - 16:25.

It may seem a little shallow

It may seem a little shallow but I trust you realise the role that aesthetics have in software uptake? It's a massive role and a factor that can stop people using an otherwise excellent product.

So sure, you may be more interested in functionality but sometimes you need to look at face value and see if things are done correctly there.

Submitted by seopher on Fri, 03/14/2008 - 20:00.

While not a KDE fan,coming

While not a KDE fan,coming from PCLOS, I've been using Mint for the last four months. A Daryna Mint and a Fluxbox Mint on two different old boxes with less hassles than I've had with any other distros, Ubuntu included.In fact,it was the only distro that recognized and configured my obscure external usb wifi without a glitch. Although I'll agree that it's not a challenging distro,it certainly single handedly will do more to attract new users and keep them on board with its P&P approach and flawless stability,especially with their software portal. Anybody remember dependency hell...?

Submitted by Michel (not verified) on Sat, 03/15/2008 - 12:33.

I remember spending worrying

I remember spending worrying amounts of time trying to resolve various dependency woes; it's great to see things like Software Portal make life so much easier these days.

Submitted by seopher on Sat, 03/15/2008 - 16:48.

Prior to a the new ALSA

Prior to a the new ALSA release Mint was the only distro that would give me sound on my Toshiba laptop most of the time. Ubuntu didn't detect anything, PCLinuxOS detected the sound card and had the drivers right but no sound no matter what I did.

But right now I am running PCLinuxOS on all of my machines with the 2.6.24.3 kernel. It is lightning fast. I am totally impressed. The live dvd I created 3.6 gb installs in 10 minutes or less depending upon which machine I am installing it on. When the PCLinuxOS development team release the 2008 edition many people are going to be extremely impressed.

Submitted by Bobby (not verified) on Sun, 03/16/2008 - 14:37.

I've used most major distros

I've used most major distros over the past 9 years. On one of my towers using a older 845 P4 Intel motherboard, and, of course, Intel Ethernet ports, PCLOS couldn't even configure the internet out of the box during installation. Ubuntu, and Linux Mint, each do this seamlessly, as well as some lesser known distros. Frankly, I'll take Mint even without the aesthetic enhancements that PCLOS offers.

Submitted by Don (not verified) on Mon, 03/17/2008 - 23:52.

I'm a Distro-A-Holic. I've

I'm a Distro-A-Holic. I've used every distro at one time or another. I'm partial to Debian based distros myself.

I've used Ubuntu on my desktop for awhile. With a WIRED connection it works great. But, Ubuntu is a MAJOR pain with wifi. I eventually got it to work after hours of work (searching forums for fixes and then ndswrappers, etc; etc;) but, it was never 100%. I had to keep logging in and I gave up.

I installed LinuxMint (main release with Gnome) and it immediately recognized my Broadcom wireless on my Dell Vostro laptop via the restricted drivers. I enabled it along with the ATI driver. I rebooted and bingo! It worked and worked 100%. I can't say enough about this as wifi (especially if you have Broadcom) is a big problem with most distros. Check the forums yourself. LinuxMint, to me anyway, is Ubuntu done right!

As for the software portal, I am a fan of this. Try installing Google Earth in Ubuntu. It never works. With LinuxMint via the software portal, it installed correctly and runs fine. Now, I've tried this KDE edition and it didn't have the same restricted drivers pop-up that appeared on the Gnome based release. This is a shame. Otherwise, I'd love to give this release a go but, it didn't work for me. Linux is an odd duck. The part a lot of people don't understand is that regarding Linux installs "It depends". It depends on your hardware and a lot of things. You really do have to choose the right fit for your setup. Ubuntu Hardy Beta works fine on my wired connection desktop but, it won't on my laptop.

For me though, LinuxMint has really won me over. Why Ubuntu and other Debian based distros can't do what LinuxMint has done regarding wifi is beyond me. I know Broadcom won't release info to allow drivers (for whatever reason) but LinuxMint has slam dunked this issue and others should take notice. That Hardy Heron Beta shows no signs of addressing this issue is disappointing. When others watch me use my laptop running LM they are impressed at it's speed and ability to do anything I need it to. Now that laptops are cheap (my Vostro cost $399 and I added 2GB total memory) you owe it to yourself to install Linux on one. They make for a great marriage. Just be patient, learn your OS. Learn your terminal commands and get under the hood. I see people fumbling with Vista all the time and wonder why on earth they bother. At least with any time I spend on LinuxMint I am IMPROVING it and not REPAIRING it. It is time well spent and it is so satisfying in the end. Nice job here!

Submitted by gfahey (not verified) on Fri, 03/28/2008 - 16:10.

Vista is really not *that*

Vista is really not *that* bad of an OS. Actually, on my particular setup-- and I write this presently on a PCLOS partition-- after SP1, Vista has me using my Windows more often. I also use a (Gnome) Gutsy w/Compiz partition and really enjoy it, usually more than my KDE experience.
Like some of the other posts here, it really depends on the individual setup and situation, and their threshold for pain. I am willing to remove PCLOS and try out Kubuntu 8.04 to really test drive KDE 4, however this KDE LM really seems intriguing.
In fact, I installed a Daryna gnome setup on my daughter's old Celeron 500mhz box that she uses for homeowork, dual-boot with XP, and she likes Linux more than Windows. Go figure.

Submitted by dadbaddy (not verified) on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 03:17.

"You see I've always looked

"You see I've always looked upon Mint with confusion; as a derivative of Ubuntu I never quite understood why it existed."

You see I've always looked upon Ubuntu with confusion; as a derivative of Debian I never quite understood why it existed.

Submitted by Dr No (not verified) on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 08:36.